Scott Derrickson exploded onto the horror scene with classic horror flicks like Sinister, but his work on The Black Phone, which follows a young boy as he tries to escape from a serial killer’s clutches with help from the ghosts of his past victims, may be his all-time best. When a sequel to Derrickson’s smash-hit Blumhouse horror movie The Black Phone was announced with almost the entire cast returning, there was some understandable confusion from fans, especially since the Grabber (Ethan Hawke) had his neck snapped by his would-be victim, Finn (Mason Thames). All those concerns faded away as soon as Black Phone 2 hit theaters, with the sequel successfully reviving a modern-day horror icon (literally).

Picking up several years after the events of the first movie, Black Phone 2 once again follows Finn and his psychic sister Gwen (Madeleine McGraw), who are now in high school and find themselves inexplicably drawn toward a Christian youth camp in the middle of winter, which, in true horror movie fashion, is hiding dark and sinister secrets. The epic conclusion of Black Phone 2 brings what appears to be a fairly definitive ending to the story of Finn, Gwen, and The Grabber, but that could also be said about the first movie. Will we ever get to see a Black Phone 3? Thankfully, to celebrate the recent home release of Black Phone 2 on VOD, I had the brilliant opportunity to talk with director Scott Derrickson about the movie’s deepest, darkest secrets. Naturally, the topic of the franchise’s potential future came up, and Derrickson made clear that another installment in the series is certainly a possibility as long as it can feel like its own necessary and unique chapter:

“There certainly can be more. But again, there doesn’t have to be. If there is to be more, there has to be a reason for it. I enjoy franchises. I think I’ve seen every Halloween movie, and that’s a lot. I saw every Elm Street movie. So, part of it is the delight of going back to characters or to iconic villains that you’re interested in seeing again. But for me, I’m interested in seeing more audaciously fresh takes that are surprising. I think that the response to this movie, the majority of the audience loved it because it was so different. Now, some people took issue with it or didn’t like it because it was so different, and that’s okay. I understand if you wanted to see something closer to the first film. That’s fine, but that doesn’t interest me. So, if there’s going to be a Black Phone 3, it would have to be another big pivot. Otherwise, I don’t see the point of making it.”

In short, while it doesn’t sound like there are any immediate plans for a Black Phone 3, it’s also an absolute possibility if the right story idea comes around. If it does, it will also likely be another major shakeup tone and concept-wise, as it was with the more supernaturally charged Nightmare on Elm Street-style storyline of Black Phone 2. I asked more about Scott Derrickson’s inspiration from the Nightmare on Elm Street movies, Gwen’s expanded role in the recent sequel, the Grabber’s perseverance as a modern horror movie legend, and more in our full conversation below:

Scott Derrickson Returns to His ‘Sinister’ Roots in ‘Black Phone 2’

COLLIDER: Congrats on Black Phone 2. It fully exceeded my expectations for a sequel to a movie that I think many people weren’t expecting to be as bold and audacious as it is. It’s a movie that looked incredible on the big screen, and as much as I love seeing movies in the movie theater, I am particularly curious how this is going to look at home, because the movie kind of functions as your return to form to that Super 8 style of film, especially during those dream sequences. You used those a lot in Sinister, so I’d love to hear more about what led you to make that creative decision, to have that be the signifier that Gwen is in that dream world.

SCOTT DERRICKSON: Well, it was specifically what you just said. It’s the signifier that she’s in the dream world. When I finished writing the script, it was very confusing to read because it was difficult, when you were reading it, to remember when you were in the dream and when you weren’t. It’s not like Nightmare on Elm Street, where you’re playing with that trope of, like, “Are they asleep or are they not asleep? Is it real? Is it a dream?” The movie never does that. So, I wanted to find a way to make it effortless and clear to the audience that we’re in a dream with Gwen. We do switch the rules in the middle, because she’s sleepwalking in the real environments for the first two-thirds of the movie, I think. Then she’s kept from sleepwalking, and she projects herself into a dream. She’s dreaming things, but she’s not in that physical space anymore; she’s lying in bed.

We used to create footage for her dreams in the first movie, so I was already playing with that idea. I think the biggest difference, and the real decision, was to not have any Super 8 footage outside of that; it was only for the dreams. And then to have, also, sonic signifiers, particularly the analog optical film sound, the static sound. It’s like a vinyl record, but technically it’s the optical track you would hear on a film projected movie. Like if you have old prints and played it in the theater, you’re going to hear that kind of static. I think that sound is creepy, and I think Super 8 is creepy, and it just seemed like a good way to go. Then the creative choice became which film stock do I use for what dreams? Because we did do a lot of research and figuring out which stocks had which kind of reactivity to color and light. We’re pretty specific about choosing the look of each of those sequences.

Why Ethan Hawke Is the Perfect Actor for the Grabber

It was an excellent choice because it makes the already-creepy Grabber even more creepy. Him being on my T-shirt shows that he’s become something of a modern-day horror icon. Of course, the biggest reason for that is that Ethan Hawke is just incredible in the role. Much like the first film, audiences have really gravitated to how well he suits this role, despite it being so different for him in terms of his other work. You, of course, worked together first in Sinister, but I would love to hear why, in your own words, Ethan Hawke was the perfect person to play the Grabber.

DERRICKSON: It started with something that’s surprisingly simple, which is I didn’t write it for him. I didn’t write the draft of the first movie for him. But once I had written that, I just thought, “I’ve got to get an actor who’s good, but I’ve got to get an actor with a distinctive voice and a memorable voice and a powerful voice.” The voice of this character is going to add something very unique to the movie, and Ethan, I’ve always thought, had one of the greatest voices in film. I was surprised that he hasn’t done more commercial voiceover work because his voice is so distinctive. When you hear it, you know that it’s him. So, it started with that. I was like, “Well, nobody’s got a better voice than Ethan.” And I loved working with him on Sinister.

When he said yes to the movie, because it’s Ethan, because I got a real star in the role, that’s when I thought, “I’ve got to see him some.” That’s when the idea of splitting the mask in two and having the variations to the mask, that’s when that idea came to mind. I thought, “Oh, that’s interesting. I’ve never seen that done in a movie before.” And I think Ethan was really surprised at how much work I had done on the masks. So when he came to South Carolina, where we shot the first movie, and saw the masks, I think that really altered how he played the role. He really likes the theatrical tradition of mask work and performing behind a mask. I think that thespian in him really likes doing it.

The mask is just incredible. Like you said, the way it splits in two, especially what I love about the second one is that the mask still changes, but as opposed to the first movie, where he just changes it off-screen, presumably here we actually see it change from scene to scene, which is very exciting. When it comes to the mask itself, what was the genesis of that idea besides just the technicality and the theatricality of it? What do you want his mask to say about the character?

DERRICKSON: Well, first of all, masks are scary. They just are. I wasn’t trying to create a horror icon like he’s become, but I think for me, it was the idea, the character who hides himself behind it and has this scary, intimidating mask because he tortures these kids with words before he tortures them physically. He’s very verbose and very articulate, and so his words are a method of inspiring fear in his victims.

Bob Dylan, in Scorsese’s Rolling Thunder Revue documentary, says, when he’s wearing all the white face paint, “If somebody wears a mask, they’re going to tell you the truth.” There’s just something about the nature of how a person can express themselves in a mask in a way that they wouldn’t otherwise. I thought that the Grabber, in some ways, can only be himself, his true self, in the mask. When he’s not wearing the mask or any mask, even the face paint when he’s the magician in the first movie, he doesn’t feel like himself. He can’t be himself. That’s why it’s such a big deal when the mask comes off during the finale of the first movie, and why, when it comes off in the second movie, same thing. He freaks out. Even though he’s been tortured and his foot’s been amputated, as they slide him into the water, he grabs that mask and puts it on because he’s got to have it. That’s part of how he is himself, and to not have that is to be missing his own face.

‘Black Phone 2’ Was Inspired by ‘Nightmare on Elm Street,’ ‘The Shining,’ and Scott Derrickson’s Personal Life

Image Via New Line Cinema

Speaking of inspiring fear in kids, just a few moments ago, you compared the movie to Nightmare on Elm Street, and there are some clear influences there. Were there any other films or stories, whether they be horror or not, that you would say would be a big influence on Black Phone 2 specifically?

DERRICKSON: It’s not like there were other films that were an influence starting out. As I was working on it, it just started occurring to me that this is a horror film in 1982, and that’s during the era of most of the great summer horror camp movies that were made. There were a lot of films set in camps riffing on Friday the 13th. So, I felt good about that, actually. I went to both summer and winter camps in Colorado, and I had never seen a winter camp movie. It’s a real thing, and I went every winter in my high school years. I just thought that was an exciting, interesting play on a horror trope from that era, from the early ‘80s. And of course, The Shining, being snowed in in the Rockies.

But again, these weren’t ideas that I started with. I started by trying to draw on my own experience in Colorado. But when I realized I was in the territory of all these great, early ’80s horror films, I started feeling really great about that, and it started to influence the style of the writing, and certainly the way I was envisioning the film. I probably never would have gotten to the idea of having the Grabber’s ice feet functioning as ice skates if I hadn’t done that, because that’s what made me think of Curtains, a pretty obscure 1983 horror film. That’s probably the most unabashedly shameless steal in this movie is from that film.

Not only is it a camp, but it’s specifically a religious camp, which I also found to be very interesting. It seems that the movie is making a clear note of doing that. Is there more of a subtextual reasoning as to why you wanted this to specifically be a Christian youth camp?

DERRICKSON: It is because that was my experience. Those were the camps that I went to when I was that age. It’s both wonderful and weird. There are incredible people there, which Mando represents, and there are really awful, self-righteous, morally oppressive people, like Ken and Barb, who were there as well. I thought that was colorful and interesting and something I hadn’t seen before. I think that I did a fairly good job of setting that apart from Gwen’s individual spirituality. She identifies, even in a conversation when she’s laying in the bed with Ernesto, as Christian, but she’s not a churchgoer, and this isn’t necessarily something that she would normally want anything to do with or participate in. So, I thought that her personal spirituality would stand a little bit in contrast to, for example, the legalistic, ritualistic religion of characters like Ken and Barb.

Gwen’s Expanded Role in ‘Black Phone 2’

Universal Pictures / Courtesy Everett Collection

Speaking of Gwen, one of the things that really makes Black Phone 2 stand out from the first one is that Gwen really is not just a supporting character here, but she is, alongside Finn, the co-protagonist. I’d love to hear more about what it was like turning Gwen into a real, full-fledged main character as opposed to the supporting character that she was in the first movie.

DERRICKSON: That was a starting point for me because both movies are two-handers. Both movies belong to both characters, and both movies are about their relationship to each other, maybe more than anything else. Even though in the first movie they have a lot of scenes together in the beginning that are very powerful, like the whipping scene, Gwen spends the entire movie trying to rescue him in the first film. I liked the idea of that being flipped, where she’s the one more in peril. He’s trying to rescue her. He’s trying to protect her. The way that they save and rescue each other, I think, is something interesting.

But I also just fell in love with that character, as did audiences. People love Finn, but we told his story. There was something about telling a more dangerous, graphic, violent story with Gwen at age 15 that just seemed like a reason to make the sequel. She had that change in perspective. I don’t want to make a sequel just to make a sequel. There have to be reasons for it. I think switching that point of view and making it more of a high school movie than a middle school movie, like the first one, these are the things that were inspiring to me. And the Grabber being disembodied. All of that became what justifies the existence of the movie at all.

Black Phone 2 is now available to buy or rent at home.

Release Date

October 17, 2025

Runtime

114 Minutes

Director

Scott Derrickson

Writers

Scott Derrickson, Joe Hill, C. Robert Cargill

Producers

Jason Blum, C. Robert Cargill, Scott Derrickson